{"id":145,"date":"2026-01-02T05:11:05","date_gmt":"2026-01-02T04:11:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/likewise878-jyclb.wordpress.com\/?p=6"},"modified":"2026-01-02T05:11:09","modified_gmt":"2026-01-02T04:11:09","slug":"brevveksling-mellom-rene-descartes-og-elisabeth-av-bohmen","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/exphilnerd.com\/index.php\/2026\/01\/02\/brevveksling-mellom-rene-descartes-og-elisabeth-av-bohmen\/","title":{"rendered":"Brevveksling mellom Ren\u00e9 Descartes og Elisabeth av B\u00f6hmen"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p><em>Om Brevvek\u00adslin\u00adgen mel\u00adlom Ren\u00e9 Descartes og Elis\u00ada\u00adbeth av B\u00f6h\u00admen (ca. 1100 ord)<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Dette essayet hen\u00advis\u00ader til \u00ab<\/em>Kapit\u00adtel 9. Hva er sin\u00adnets plass i naturen ?\u00bb<em> i det nye exphil-pro\u00adgram\u00admet ved Uni\u00adver\u00adsitetet i Oslo.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>[Dette essayet besvar\u00ader en reell eksamen\u00adsopp\u00adgave fra sem\u00adi\u00adnar\u00advari\u00adanten ved Uni\u00adver\u00adsitetet i Oslo. Det er p\u00e5 \u00abA\u2011niv\u00e5\u00bb;-]<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Denne tek\u00adsten analy\u00adser\u00ader Descartes\u2019 argu\u00admenter som svar p\u00e5 Elis\u00adabeht av B\u00f6h\u00admen\u2019 innvendinger. If\u00f8lge Elis\u00adabeht av B\u00f6h\u00admen krev\u00ader kausal p\u00e5virkn\u00ading p\u00e5 krop\u00adper fysisk kon\u00adtakt, og fysisk kon\u00adtakt er bare mulig mel\u00adlom fysiske objek\u00adter. Den karte\u00adsianske hypote\u00adsen om at det ikke-materielle sin\u00adnet kan ut\u00f8ve en kausal inn\u00adfly\u00adtelse p\u00e5 krop\u00adpen, er uhold\u00adbar under disse betingelsene.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\">\n\n\n\n<p>I sitt brev av 6. mai 1643 ba Elis\u00ada\u00adbeth Descartes om \u00e5 fork\u00adlare <em>\u00ab hvor\u00addan [\u2026] men\u00adneskesje\u00adlen, som kun er en tenk\u00adende sub\u00adstans kan styre krop\u00adpens \u00e5nder [esprit] og for\u00e5r\u00adsake friv\u00adil\u00adlige han\u00addlinger. \u00bb <\/em>If\u00f8lge henne hold\u00ader ikke Descartes\u2019 hypotese om en imma\u00adteriell sjel, noe hun demon\u00adstr\u00aderer ved \u00e5 iverk\u00adsette en reduc\u00adtio ad absur\u00addum.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Reson\u00adnementet hennes utfoldes som f\u00f8l\u00adger: Det synes at <em>\u00ab enhver beveg\u00adelse skjer ved at den beveg\u00adede tin\u00adgen dyttes \u00bb<\/em>, noe som forut\u00adset\u00adter enten <em>\u00ab ber\u00f8ring \u00bb<\/em> eller at <em>\u00ab det som dyt\u00adter, har utstrekn\u00ading. \u00bb <\/em>Sje\u00adlen i Descartes\u2019 opp\u00adfat\u00adning ser ut til \u00e5 v\u00e6re uforenelig med hver av disse betingelsene. Dermed kan dual\u00adisme ikke forsvares. (Elis\u00ada\u00adbeth av B\u00f6h\u00admen, 2021, s. 216)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><a class=\"image-link image2 is-viewable-img can-restack\" href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/$s_!Pyo4!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdcb48c6a-f03f-443e-89b6-54d29218aed9_1280x853.jpeg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/$s_!Pyo4!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fdcb48c6a-f03f-443e-89b6-54d29218aed9_1280x853.jpeg\" alt><\/a><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>I sitt svar fra 21. mai 1643 innr\u00f8m\u00admer Descartes rel\u00ade\u00advansen av Elis\u00ada\u00adbeths sp\u00f8rsm\u00e5l og pre\u00adsis\u00ader\u00ader hvor\u00addan den tilsynela\u00adtende mot\u00adsigelsen kan l\u00f8s\u00ades. <em>\u00ab[D]et er to ting \u00e5 si om den men\u00adneske\u00adlige sjel, og all mulig kunnskap om sje\u00adlens natur avhenger av disse to. Den ene er at sje\u00adlen tenker, og det andre er at siden sje\u00adlen er forenet med krop\u00adpen, kan den virke p\u00e5 og p\u00e5virkes sam\u00admen med den.\u00bb<\/em> Descartes innr\u00f8m\u00admer \u00e5 ha neglis\u00adjert det andre i sine tidligere skrifter: m\u00e5let var \u00e5 demon\u00adstrere dual\u00adis\u00admen, og pr\u00f8ven var best basert p\u00e5 den f\u00f8rste av sje\u00adlens egen\u00adskaper. N\u00e5 er det tid til \u00e5 se n\u00e6rmere p\u00e5 det andre. All v\u00e5r kunnskap bygges opp ut ifra et lite antall <em>\u00abopprin\u00adnelige ideer\u00bb<\/em> alle videre ideer f\u00f8l\u00adger fra. S\u00e5 fork\u00adlares alt om krop\u00adpen, som form og beveg\u00adelse, fra ideen om <em>\u00abutstrekn\u00ading\u00bb<\/em>. Forst\u00e5elsen av sje\u00adlen baseres p\u00e5 begrepet <em>\u00abtanke\u00bb<\/em>. Men vi har ogs\u00e5 ideer som ber\u00f8r\u00ader b\u00e5de sje\u00adlen og krop\u00adpen, slik som <em>\u00absje\u00adlens makt til \u00e5 bevege krop\u00adpen\u00bb <\/em>og <em>\u00abkrop\u00adpens makt til \u00e5 p\u00e5virke sje\u00adlen\u00bb<\/em>, som alle f\u00f8l\u00adger fra ideen om deres foren\u00ading. Disse opprin\u00adnelige ideene m\u00e5 skilles n\u00f8yak\u00adtig fra hveran\u00addre og deres bruk begrens\u00ades til tin\u00adgene de h\u00f8r\u00ader til. Det er alt\u00ads\u00e5 n\u00e5r vi pr\u00f8ver \u00e5 bruke ideer p\u00e5 omr\u00e5der hvor de er fremmede, at vi blir villedet. Dette gjelder s\u00e6rlig mis\u00adbruken av ideene tilknyt\u00adtet krop\u00adpen, som vi er mer fortrolige med siden de ber\u00f8r\u00ader sansene, for \u00e5 fork\u00adlare det som ber\u00f8r\u00ader sje\u00adlen selv eller dens forbindelse til krop\u00adpen. (Descartes, 2021, s.217)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Descartes vil n\u00e5 klargj\u00f8re <em>\u00ab hvor\u00addan ideene som h\u00f8r\u00ader til sje\u00adlens foren\u00ading med krop\u00adpen skal begripes, uten hjelp fra dem som h\u00f8r\u00ader til krop\u00adpen eller sje\u00adlen. \u00bb<\/em> (Descartes, 2021, s.218) Disse ideene finnes i sje\u00adlen, som alle andre opprin\u00adnelige ideer. Men sje\u00adlen er ikke alltid i stand til \u00e5 forst\u00e5 disse ideenes natur og bruk\u00adsom\u00adr\u00e5de. En av forvir\u00adrin\u00adgene best\u00e5r i \u00e5 ta krop\u00adpens egen\u00adskaper, som for eksem\u00adpel tyn\u00adgde, for sub\u00adstanser, reelle ting som eksis\u00adter\u00ader uavhengig av krop\u00adpen.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Det feilak\u00adtige reson\u00adnementet som Descartes har til hen\u00adsikt \u00e5 rette opp, er som f\u00f8l\u00adger: Vi innser at krop\u00adpens egen\u00adskaper har makt til \u00e5 p\u00e5virke krop\u00adpen. Tyn\u00adgde for eksem\u00adpel makt til \u00e5 bevege krop\u00adpen mot jor\u00addens kjerne. Vi antar at denne p\u00e5virknin\u00adgen er av samme karak\u00adter som en kropps p\u00e5virkn\u00ading p\u00e5 en annen. Vi utled\u00ader at egen\u00adskapene er reelle ting, sub\u00adstanser, som virk\u00ader p\u00e5 krop\u00adpen ved \u00e5 ut\u00f8ve en kraft p\u00e5 kon\u00adtak\u00adtover\u00adflat\u00aden.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Hvis dette reson\u00adnementet ikke hold\u00ader, slik Descartes demon\u00adstr\u00aderer med tyn\u00adgde-eksem\u00adplet, er det for\u00addi <em>\u00ab vi opplever at vi allerede har en helt ide [i oss] for \u00e5 forst\u00e5 \u00bb \u00ab hvor\u00addan krop\u00adpen og dens tyn\u00adgde er for\u00adbun\u00addet til hveran\u00addre \u00bb<\/em>. Det er evi\u00addensen for id\u00e9en som er bevis for den. (Descartes, 2021, s.218)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If\u00f8lge Elis\u00ada\u00adbeth av B\u00f6h\u00admen hold\u00ader Descartes\u2019 demon\u00adstrasjon ikke. For det f\u00f8rste fun\u00adger\u00ader analo\u00adgien (mel\u00adlom tyn\u00adgde eller andre egen\u00adskaper ved krop\u00adpen og sje\u00adlen) ikke. Man kan ikke utlede noe om sje\u00adlen ut fra et reson\u00adnement om tyn\u00adgde.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>For det andre kan det hevdes at Descartes\u2019 demon\u00adstrasjon inneb\u00e6r\u00ader en selv\u00admot\u00adsigelse. Selv om den aktuelle pas\u00adsas\u00adjen er uklar, noe over\u00adset\u00adterne bekrefter, vil vi fors\u00f8ke \u00e5 fork\u00adlare reson\u00adnementet til Elis\u00ada\u00adbeth av B\u00f6h\u00admen. Pre\u00admis\u00adset for Descartes\u2019 argu\u00adment er at det er klart at tyn\u00adg\u00adden ikke er adskilt fra krop\u00adpen. For \u00e5 utlede, som Descartes gj\u00f8r, at krop\u00adpen kan dyttes av noe imma\u00adterielt, m\u00e5 vi alt\u00ads\u00e5 anta at tyn\u00adg\u00adden er noe imma\u00adterielt. Men siden krop\u00adpen er materiell og tyn\u00adg\u00adden ikke er atskilt fra den, kan ikke tyn\u00adg\u00adden v\u00e6re imma\u00adteriell. Vi kan der\u00adfor ikke utlede fra pre\u00admis\u00adset at krop\u00adpen kan dyttes av noe imma\u00adterielt. Men det er heller ikke mulig \u00e5 utlede det mot\u00adsat\u00adte, nem\u00adlig at krop\u00adpen ikke kan dyttes av noe imma\u00adterielt. Det er der\u00adfor ikke helt rik\u00adtig \u00e5 hevde, slik Elis\u00ada\u00adbeth av B\u00f6h\u00admen gj\u00f8r, at vi fra pre\u00admis\u00adset kan utlede en kon\u00adklusjon som st\u00e5r i mot\u00adset\u00adning til Descartes\u2019, men vi men\u00ader \u00e5 kunne skimte for\u00adfat\u00adterens tankegang i denne pas\u00adsas\u00adjen, som ikke er s\u00e6rlig klar for eksegetene.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><a class=\"image-link image2 is-viewable-img can-restack\" href=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/$s_!dnoY!,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feeadaba2-00cc-4126-a32f-799309342339_800x1157.png\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/substackcdn.com\/image\/fetch\/$s_!dnoY!,w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep\/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Feeadaba2-00cc-4126-a32f-799309342339_800x1157.png\" alt><\/a><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>For det tred\u00adje er Descartes pre\u00admisse selv tvil\u00adsom. Det er ikke \u00e5pen\u00adbart at tyn\u00adg\u00adden ikke er adskilt fra krop\u00adpen. Av uviten\u00adhet, og for\u00addi den kraften som beveg\u00ader krop\u00adpene mot jor\u00addens kjerne ikke kan opp\u00adfattes av sansene, blir den erk\u00adl\u00e6rt for imma\u00adteriell.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>For det fjerde er det ufork\u00adlarlig hvor\u00addan den imma\u00adterielle sje\u00adlen virk\u00ader p\u00e5 krop\u00adpen. Hvis sje\u00adlen ikke er materiell, har den ingen kon\u00adtakt med krop\u00adpen. Hvis den han\u00addler \u00abved \u00e5 informere\u00bb, er den intel\u00adli\u00adgent, men hvis den ikke er adskilt fra krop\u00adpen, er den kropp\u00adslig, og Descartes slo fast at det kropp\u00adslige ikke tenker. (Elis\u00ada\u00adbeth av B\u00f6h\u00admen, 2021, s.219\u2013220)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Descartes insis\u00adter\u00ader p\u00e5 at sje\u00adlen er atskilt fra krop\u00adpen og imma\u00adteriell. De tre opprin\u00adnelige id\u00e9ene som finnes i oss, nem\u00adlig id\u00e9en om sje\u00adlen, krop\u00adpen og deres foren\u00ading, skiller seg fra hveran\u00addre ved den instansen som forst\u00e5r dem, hen\u00adholdsvis den rene for\u00adstand, forestill\u00ading\u00adsev\u00adnen og den almin\u00adnelige opplevelse. Descartes innr\u00f8m\u00admer selv\u00admosigle\u00adsen : det er vanske\u00adlig \u00e5 tenke p\u00e5 forenin\u00adgen av krop\u00adpen og sje\u00adlen, for\u00addi det er ens\u00adbe\u00adty\u00addende med \u00e5 tenke p\u00e5 dem b\u00e5de som forskjel\u00adlige ting og som \u00e9n og samme ting. Men at sje\u00adlen og krop\u00adpen er atskilt, er innl\u00ady\u00adsende, det er almin\u00adnelig sunn for\u00adnuft. Der\u00adfor bekym\u00adret han seg ikke for en mulig innvend\u00ading mot den uful\u00adlkomne sam\u00admen\u00adlignin\u00adgen med relasjo\u00adnen mel\u00adlom tyn\u00adgde og kropp. Kort sagt, hvis vi mis\u00adforst\u00e5r disse begrepene, er det for\u00addi vi ikke \u00f8ver oss nok p\u00e5 de tre omr\u00e5\u00addene ren for\u00adnuft, forestill\u00ading\u00adsevne og hverdagsliv. (Descartes, 2021, s.221)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Descartes fort\u00adset\u00adter med \u00e5 bevise sje\u00adlens imma\u00adte\u00adri\u00adalitet ved absur\u00additet. Hvis vi antar at sje\u00adlen har materie, m\u00e5 den ha et sted, men tanken har ikke det. Det er klart at n\u00e5r vi antar at sje\u00adlen er en materie, er det i virke\u00adligheten dens foren\u00ading med krop\u00adpen vi sik\u00adter til. (Descartes, 2021, s.221)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Elis\u00ada\u00adbeth av B\u00f6h\u00admen innven\u00adder at selv om sansene hjelper \u00e5 fornemme sje\u00adlens virkn\u00ading p\u00e5 krop\u00adpen, fork\u00adlar\u00ader de ikke hva denne virknin\u00adgen best\u00e5r i. Dermed vender hun mot ham Descartes\u2019 argu\u00adment i hans Med\u00adi\u00adtasjon\u00ader, if\u00f8lge hvilket <em>\u00ab alle feil kom\u00admer av at vi feller dom\u00admer over det vi ikke har klare opp\u00adfat\u00adninger om \u00bb<\/em>. (Elis\u00ada\u00adbeth av B\u00f6h\u00admen, 2021, s.223)<\/p>\n\n\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\">\n\n\n\n<p><em>Kilder<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Wat\u00adzl, S. (Red.). (2021). Kapi\u00adtel 9. Hva er sin\u00adnets plass i naturen? I E. Skjervheim, G. Skir\u00adbekk, &amp; A. Gilje (Red.), Vite, v\u00e6re, gj\u00f8re: Exphil: l\u00e6re\u00adbok med orig\u00adinal\u00adtek\u00adster (s. 208\u2013224). Oslo: Gylden\u00addal Akademisk.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Descartes, R. &amp; Elis\u00ada\u00adbeth av B\u00f6h\u00admen. (2021). Brevvek\u00adsling mel\u00adlom Ren\u00e9 Descartes og Elis\u00ada\u00adbeth av B\u00f6h\u00admen. I S. Wat\u00adzl (Red.), Hva er sin\u00adnets plass i naturen? I E. Skjervheim, G. Skir\u00adbekk, &amp; A. Gilje (Red.), Vite, v\u00e6re, gj\u00f8re: Exphil: l\u00e6re\u00adbok med orig\u00adinal\u00adtek\u00adster (s. 215\u2013224). Oslo: Gylden\u00addal Akademisk.<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Om Brevvek\u00adslin\u00adgen mel\u00adlom Ren\u00e9 Descartes og Elis\u00ada\u00adbeth av B\u00f6h\u00admen (ca. 1100 ord) Dette essayet hen\u00advis\u00ader til \u00abKapit\u00adtel 9. Hva er sin\u00adnets plass i naturen ?\u00bb i det nye exphil-pro\u00ad\u00adgram\u00admet ved Uni\u00adver\u00adsitetet i Oslo. [Dette essayet besvar\u00ader en reell eksamen\u00adsopp\u00adgave fra sem\u00adi\u00adnar\u00advari\u00adanten ved Uni\u00adver\u00adsitetet i Oslo. Det er p\u00e5 \u00abA\u2011niv\u00e5\u00bb;-] Denne tek\u00adsten analy\u00adser\u00ader Descartes\u2019 argu\u00admenter som [\u2026]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":181131133,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"wp_typography_post_enhancements_disabled":false,"iawp_total_views":9,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[32,8,31],"class_list":["post-145","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-exphil-filosofi-fordypninsessays","tag-elisabeth-av-bohmen","tag-metafysikk","tag-rene-descartes"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v26.6 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Brevveksling mellom Ren\u00e9 Descartes og Elisabeth av B\u00f6hmen - Exphilnerd<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/exphilnerd.com\/index.php\/2026\/01\/02\/brevveksling-mellom-rene-descartes-og-elisabeth-av-bohmen\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"nb_NO\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Brevveksling mellom Ren\u00e9 Descartes og Elisabeth av B\u00f6hmen - Exphilnerd\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Om Brevvek\u00adslin\u00adgen mel\u00adlom Ren\u00e9 Descartes og Elis\u00ada\u00adbeth av B\u00f6h\u00admen (ca. 1100 ord) Dette essayet hen\u00advis\u00ader til \u00abKapit\u00adtel 9. Hva er sin\u00adnets plass i naturen ?\u00bb i det nye exphil-pro\u00adgram\u00admet ved Uni\u00adver\u00adsitetet i Oslo. [Dette essayet besvar\u00ader en reell eksamen\u00adsopp\u00adgave fra sem\u00adi\u00adnar\u00advari\u00adanten ved Uni\u00adver\u00adsitetet i Oslo. 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